Many readers have asked us why there are only two strikes for the driver’s psychometric test. In the rail industry, you can be given a third chance, but usually, you and the TOC need to mitigate and document this. There have been stories that internal staff are allowed in some TOCs to take as many times as they can pass; though we couldn’t verify the source of this information. Some industries allow more than twice. For instance, air traffic controllers are allowed to take their assessments three times. While on the road, you can take the driving test as many times until you pass. On the Underground, you are allowed to take the assessments as many as you can until you pass. However, there is a 6-month restriction between the assessments. This limitation aligns with the philosophy behind he two-strikes driver psychometric test.
Understanding Two Strikes for the Driver Psychometric Test
Well for safety reason. There is a school of thought in psychology that argues that if a person fails twice on the assessments then it indicates that that they have underlying weakness of which may never overcome. This line of thought fails to embrace reality. For instance if a person fails DVLA driving test five times and passed on the sixth one. Does this make them less safe of a driver than those that passed the first time? No, in fact they are all licenced drivers. And the one who struggled in the beginning is likely to value his or her licence. In this is case value their job 0r licence as a train driver.
The rationale for establishing two strikes for the driver psychometric test is to ensure that only the most suitable candidates proceed further in the selection process.
Owing to the number of applications it suffice to say that two attempts by candidates are fair. Usually for every job advertised there are over 500 applications. Therefore by limiting the amount of attempt some candidates are eliminated from the recruitment cycle. This speeds up the work of the person that select applicants for assessment – an efficient gain for the TOC.
This approach ultimately reflects the stringent standards associated with two strikes for the two-strikes driver psychometric test.
TOCs are private companies, so they can’t spend their resources on people who are going to fail five times before they pass the sixth one. The assessment costs £120. Failing the psychometric assessments is an indicator that you are not likely to pass the train driver course. The cost of training a train driver is very expensive. First, they have to pay them on average £22k to sit down and learn. Provide them with uniforms, study materials and equipment. And they have to pay £50K plus instructors to train them. It is estimated that it costs about £70K to train one trainee driver. Though this is reduced slightly by putting the group of trainees in one classroom. This is why the system of two strikes for the driver’s psychometric test has been implemented.
Passing the train driver psychometric test is different from passing the driver course. I know of some people who have passed the psychometric test first time but failed on the driver course. It shows that it is not a sure-proof indicator of how someone will do on the course. However, the concept of two strikes for the driver psychometric test should be reconsidered, as TOCs should therefore allow candidates to take the driver selection test more than twice.
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Your thoughts on the topic of two strikes for the driver psychometric test are welcome; please post your comments.
How many ‘old school’ drivers who have never taken these tests would in fact fail them if made to take them ? Loads I bet so how is this safe? Commuters are putting their lives in the hands of these non tested drivers every day so if just thorough training is good enough for them why is that not good enough for new recruits ?
My son applied to Arriva Rail London and sat his first test on Tuesday, a VSE test, visual search excercise I believe. He was notified yesterday that he did not pass. Can someone please confirm that the failure of this first test will count as one of his 2 attempts, or are the tests further down the line the ones that are limited to how many times you can take them? He currently works for Arriva within the revenue department but he is being told various and contradictory things by others at work. I’d be really grateful for some clarification on this. Any help would be much appreciated.
The VSE does not count toward one of his lives as this is an assessment that only enhanced pass TOC/FOC require.
Older drivers have a record of performance that supercedes any assessment. The assessment tests are for trainability, concentration, ability to follow instructions and rules, comprehension and communication skills, problem solving and reaction times, over 96% of people who pass the assessments/medicals pass the driver training course. There are also interviews to pass, (we lose about 50% of candidates at the interview/medical stage). Your application must be perfect and you must present yourself well, there are hundreds/thousands of applicants for every job. You can have no criminal or drugs records and any trace of drugs or alcohol in your medical and you are out.
Failed my second attempt at the group Bourdon test. Last time was in 2015. It was my mistake for going too fast but to pass all other tests and to be told you can never apply again is downright crazy. Three strikes and you’re out maybe but two? Way too harsh.
i failed the GB test on second attempt too! wish i had practiced more and gone a bit slower on the live test… sighs.. oh the regrets!
I completed stage 1 of the testing last year however, I later failed the online recorded interview and was wondering if this is still counted toward my two strikes? I know if I have failed the test it would be counted but it was less clear about my situation.
No, the online test is not considered as part of the two strikes.
The VSE does not count toward one of his lives as this is an assessment that only enhanced pass TOC/FOC require.
Yes, it doesn’t count for any TOC that doesn’t use VSE. But it counts for the TOCs that use VSE.
Not all TOCs use faultfinding. If a candidate fails at it, it doesn’t count when s/he apply to a TOC that doesn’t use faultfinding as an assessment.
Mechanical Comprehension Test is not used by all TOCs; again it will not count when you pass or fail and apply to a TOC that doesn’t use it.
Hi anyone know which TOC don’t use VSE. I passed all the other tests but failed the VSE. Thanks
South West trains, GTR, Southern, GWR, First Rail
I was really heartbroken yesterday at 11 am when the test administrator told me that I was failed for not being able to achieve a passing score by a fraction in TEA-Occ paper Test (multi-tasking)
He also admitted that I performed really well in all the rest of the assessment tasks!
Now as a result, I have been actually blacklisted (my words) for 6months and my name would be put into the Database of 6months,
There is a problem now as I have another interview next week in another TOC, please suggest what should I do as I hadn’t failed assessment at the time of applying.
Or is there a way that I can challenge the results somehow as there was a use of pencil and paper and anyone can change our answers if they don’t like us?
Regards
TEA-OCC is part of the core selection process. But it all depends on the type of interview. If it is a Driver Manager Interview (DMI) then the six months rule does not affect you. However, if it is a Multi Modal interview (MMI), then the six months rule will affect you. This is because MMI forms part of the core selection process. So you can do the DMI as many times till you pass and each TOC may tailor the questions to suit them.
I don’t think your idea to dispute the results is good.
Witch company sites up the train driver teast , any address or contact number please
DB Schenker Rail
I too failed my second attempt.
I agree that the two attempts rule is hard to swallow but understand that companies can’t keep paying for us to resit. I failed on the WAFV vigilance test I tapped the button when it hadn’t changed and I knew I had . The toc I applied for increased its standard to enhanced too so that didn’t help, I know trainee drivers that passed last year having made the same mistake as me, this made it so much more frustrating.
I also don’t like that you don’t get feedback other than you failed this part. If you can’t reapply why can’t you get feedback .
Hello,
I pass in European country my train driver training three months ago and received train driving licence:). Of course this is just a begging of the train driver training. Am I considered in UK as a trainee train driver and what it would mean in practice. Or maybe it wont be even taken into account and I am starting with SJT tests like everybody else.
Thank you your kind advice.
You will still have to do route learning, knowledge and rules. If you have train driving experience TOCs can speed your training. If you don’t then you are still classed as a trainee.
It seems very odd to me to have a ‘two strikes and you’re out’ approach and say it’s because of aptitude so if you have the skills, you don’t the skills. Fair enough… But then those who pass are timed out after five years, but surely, if you have the aptitude then you won’t lose it. I passed and they timed out because of the recruiting block as covid hit.
I failed the first hand eye co-ordination test (I believe due to a faulty controller which I tried to appeal) and passed when I tried a second time (on a different controller)
So you can have this ludicrous situation where someone has passed, and so they have the aptitude but it times out and then they fail (for whatever reason) and they are told they can never apply again… seems like such a convoluted way of doing it.
If you have a lifetime ban, you should have a lifetime pass.
There should be a transition test for metro drivers as the tests and role are very similar.
I sat the standard TDA in may. It wasn’t too bad from my POV and i found it relatively straight forward. The night before i was having kittens with the stress of it – all i could practice at home was the Group Bourdon (4 dots) and nothing else – no joysticks, no flashing images, no grey squares…
Turned up the next day, sat it and passed. It wasn’t too bad really. I found the computer tests a little challenging but passable if you are good at concentrating.
Had a interview with two depot managers this week, it went badly!!! Now i’m told i cannot reapply for another year so that would be next november meaning i wouldn’t get another interview until at least 2025.
Will a failed DMI hold me back with another TOC?
U?nlike many others I’m not bothered about being a main line train driver, shunting would do me nicely given my lifetime fascination with points and riding over them!
Also are there any TOCs in the south east who would accept the standard TDA for mainline? – Although i’m not worried about this particular role if it comes up and there’s no shunting jobs i’d still give it a shot.
A failed DMI would not hold you back with another TOC. There are TOC’s in the South East that will accept the standard TDA. Check Southern, Greater Anglia, Southeastern and many others.